Just have been playing around with the CP80 a bit - adding some chorus and delay in Logic makes it sound like instant Vangelis... brings back the sounds of Antarctica...
Improvised with it a bit and uploaded the resulting mp3 in the files-section...
just LOVE the sound!!!
GREAT - Pianoteq guys!!!!
cheers
Hans
Agreed - VERY good indeed - thankyou Pianoteq!!!
A tiny bit of criticism - I think it is slightly lacking in crispness in the attacks, but I notice this in ALL Pianoteq presets - not just the CP80. Boosting high frequencies and hammer strike hardness helps, but never really solves the problem for me.
EDIT: I've just bumped up the hammer noise volume and this has helped quite a bit..........
But anyway, this CP80 really REALLY sounds authentic overall!
Greg.
Hi again,
I'm withdrawing my comment about the attacks lacking crispness - I think I'm mistaken (at least regarding the CP80)
Greg.
We need a nice beautiful mp3 demo for the Yamaha CP-80, to post on the Pianoteq website.
What about some few people here record some mp3 with MIDI and send to Niclas? He could post here in this forum, and we would ellect the best.
What about that Niclas?
Thanks Pianoteq-Team!
Love the CP80, although i didn't know it before. I did some unnatural changes in impedance and resonance and recorded the piece you find in the file-section of the forum. (CP80Reso.mp3)
Hope you enjoy
Miki
Hi again,
I'm withdrawing my comment about the attacks lacking crispness - I think I'm mistaken (at least regarding the CP80)Greg.
I've just downloaded the recent add-ons (Erard, Blanchet, Bechstein) and the attacks sound more satisfying. In fact they sound much clearer overall too - I don't feel the need to use any EQ at all. (FWIW, from someone who knows nothing about how those instruments are supposed to sound)
Greg.
Hi
Having played with the Pianoteq CP80 for some ours now and listening to recorded tracks with the original and comparing to a good sampled version my impression is that the Pianoteq version sounds too much like an acoustic piano in comparison.
The attack part of the sound is good i think, but the releasing part is a little muddy and maybe more complex than the real one.
This is just my own impressions and i might have another opinion if i had a real one to compare with.
But i think it should sound hmmmm... more electronic than it does now.
What is others opinion...?
Does any Pianotec user has the real thing to compare with besides the Pianoteq people :-)
I would like to hear what others think.
Ole
Hi
Having played with the Pianoteq CP80 for some ours now and listening to recorded tracks with the original and comparing to a good sampled version my impression is that the Pianoteq version sounds too much like an acoustic piano in comparison.
The attack part of the sound is good i think, but the releasing part is a little muddy and maybe more complex than the real one.This is just my own impressions and i might have another opinion if i had a real one to compare with.
But i think it should sound hmmmm... more electronic than it does now.What is others opinion...?
Does any Pianotec user has the real thing to compare with besides the Pianoteq people :-)I would like to hear what others think.
Ole
Not ever having played a real one, I'm skating on thin ice here. But I think an important first question to be asked is whether the emulation is of the pure electronic outputs or of the player perspective. After all, it IS a full baby grand, which logically means you'd get a fair bit of acoustic sound sitting on the piano bench.
I don't know how much effort Yamaha would have spent on getting a nice-sounding string case -- but my guess is the first, middle and last priority was to get it as portable as possible. Any which way, it must've mechanically amplified the string sound to some degree -- probably not enough to be heard much by the audience at a loud rock concert, though...
Note that some recordings you are listening to MAY be of a CP70, not a CP80. I have been told by quite a reliable source that the CP70 has a smaller harp than the CP80 - i.e - it doesn't just have fewer notes, the harp itself is actually a bit smaller, which could change the timbre a bit. Just a thought.
EDIT: I suppose if when you make the harp smaller in Pianoteq, and the sound still doesn't sound authentic to you, then perhaps this isn't the problem afterall.
Now, there's one very well known song which I have been informed uses the CP80 (or CP70), but I always thought it was a real piano!! The song is Billy Joel's "My Life".
In that recording, the piano sounds sort of too "powerful" to be a CP. This may be due to the effects processing - I don't know.
I haven't AB'd Pianoteq with any recordings yet. I think I'll listen to some Cold Chisel. At the moment though, I think Pianoteq is very authentic indeed, because playing it sounds uncannily like playing my own CP80 samples, and I know that my own samples have had very little processing - just hum and hiss removal, and I did this as carefully as I could to not change the character of the sound too much.
Now, I do remember downloading a small CP sampleset which was for a Kurzweil K2000. These samples were very bright, and quite frankly, very pleasing indeed - very metallic, and sonorous at the same time - a lot of "detail" in the sound. I would not be surpised if Pianoteq may have trouble reproducing the sound of a highly EQ'd real CP closely. (but I can't be sure)
Greg.
Having played with the Pianoteq CP80 for some ours now and listening to recorded tracks with the original and comparing to a good sampled version my impression is that the Pianoteq version sounds too much like an acoustic piano in comparison.
Ole
The original instrument is mono and dry, so you will get the closest sound to the original by selecting mono output and turning the reverb off. With these settings, the sound is very close to the original samples (the closest we could come with our model - that btw has been specially adapted to the CP-80). Note that due do audio processing, the sound from recorded tracks is often far from the raw sound of the CP-80.
The acoustic sensation that you describe comes from the stereo image which has been built on the top. This stereo image is not issued from the CP-80, it was just put there to have a nicer sound when listening to the instrument in solo with headphones. But this is a matter of taste...
Olepro,
If you haven't already, perhaps try one or more of the following:
a) Increase Unison Width a bit, to make the sound move around a bit more during the sustain. (i.e introduce more of a phasing effect due to the detuning)
b) Increase Forte Hammer Hardness
c) Decrease Key Release Duration (I like 0.5)
d) Try boosting the higher frequencies using the EQ.
I don't have a professional sample library to compare with like you do, but I've just listened to an MP3 demo of one, and IMHO Pianoteq sounds similar. I may not be comparing as closely as you are though.
Also, when you say "the releasing part", do you really mean the main part of the notes - the sustain? I.e, do you mean the sound which occurs just after the attack, and stays there until you release the key? The reason I'm asking is that I doubt whether the release could have such a large effect on the overall sound - the release is the short bit of sound you hear just AFTER you release the key. (I apologise if you know this already)
Greg.
Olepro,
If you haven't already, perhaps try one or more of the following:a) Increase Unison Width a bit, to make the sound move around a bit more during the sustain. (i.e introduce more of a phasing effect due to the detuning)
b) Increase Forte Hammer Hardness
c) Decrease Key Release Duration (I like 0.5)
d) Try boosting the higher frequencies using the EQ.I don't have a professional sample library to compare with like you do, but I've just listened to an MP3 demo of one, and IMHO Pianoteq sounds similar. I may not be comparing as closely as you are though.
Also, when you say "the releasing part", do you really mean the main part of the notes - the sustain? I.e, do you mean the sound which occurs just after the attack, and stays there until you release the key? The reason I'm asking is that I doubt whether the release could have such a large effect on the overall sound - the release is the short bit of sound you hear just AFTER you release the key. (I apologise if you know this already)
Greg.
Yes, i mean the sustaining part after the attack.
I have made a modified CP80 adding hammer hardness, hammer noise and increasing Q-factor that make the treble fade out faster. That really helps it sound more as i like it. I will upload the fxp file asap :-)
By the way i found a GREAT freeware chorus that sounds fantastic on the CP80.
It's a copy of the chorus inside Roland Juno-60.
http://kunz.corrupt.ch/?Products:VST_Chorus-60
By the way i found a GREAT freeware chorus that sounds fantastic on the CP80.
It's a copy of the chorus inside Roland Juno-60.
http://kunz.corrupt.ch/?Products:VST_Chorus-60
Very nice indeed. On setting "II" it sounds sort of like a "jet flanger" effect, without sounding too harsh. Often that kind of effect sounds too harsh on a piano, but not this one. FWIW another freeware/donation-ware one which I love is "Effectizer": http://www.soundfonts.it/?a=cat&b=3
Greg.
This is eerily like the real thing, except it's in tune ;> In fact, it just sounds damn nicer than the real thing (restored bright..). This will be a very useful addition to the preset list.
Waytogo guys. Bravo. Merci mille fois
jeff in surry hills