Topic: New User

I have tried the PianoTeq demo in the past.  I thought the sound was slightly lacking compared to most larger sample libraries. The new K1 piano model convinced me to buy it this time.  I have only had the full version for one day and I'm finding it a great pleasure to play & edit.  I found the close mic preset was my best starting point.  I even tried applying a very tiny amount of slow tremelo and I liked the subtle movement. Almost like the very slow harmonic wave you sometimes hear from a real piano.  I also disabled the reverb and used a couple presets in Wizooverb with great results. There seems to be a lot of kind and knowledgeable people on this forum.  Looking forward to learning more!  -Perry-

Re: New User

Hello Perry,

Welcome to the forum.  Acknowledging a similar circumstance as you, a few years ago, I felt the sounds of the Pianoteq Version 2 demo version were interesting, but could not compete with my sample libraries.

Beginning last September, after having acquired Pianoteq Version 3 and its subsequent upgrades, I have uninstalled and physically removed all of the sampled piano libraries (EWQL Pianos - 260GB, Ivory - >40GB, the Bluethner Digital Model One and additional lesser others) from my hard drives. 

Not intending to write unkind words about competitive vendors of sampled piano software, I kept finding myself having to alter my own playing style to accommodate their libraries.  Most notably, sampled libraries contain "breaks" in the recorded sound as one progresses from the highest velocity of one set of samples of a given note ... to the lowest velocity of the next louder set of samples of the same note. 

My live performances with sampled libraries often had notes that "stuck out" in various unintended places.   For example, if a note sounded fine between velocities 88 and 94, if I happened to play with 95 velocity, the note stuck out like a sore thumb.  As a countermeasure, I kept finding myself having to record my live performance into midi, using midi as a pseudo tape recorder -- zero quantization and zero click tracks, and then subsequently edit individual velocities to correct for note velocities that fired the wrong velocity-based sample set for a given note.

The above trouble occurred when I made a live recording of "Rhapsody in Blue" using the Boesendorfer piano in the demo recording that appears in EWQL Pianos' website.  I had to go back and edit, by hand, numerous velocities that had "tripped" the next highest velocity layer ... in a piano library that sported 18 separate velocity levels.   This is not to badmouth EWQL, because they do have a very fine library.  It's just that sampled libraries often require that a live performance get note velocities edited here and there, in order to produce a polished-sounding performance.

An alternate countermeasure to recording into midi was to be overly cautious about playing certain musical sections without tripping the next loudest piano sample.  To me, this became disasterous, because I was not able to concentrate on making music -- I was worried that certain phrases were going to "stick out" with the wrong piano timbre.  The resulting performances sounded "too careful" or "too mechanical", as compared to playing without worry of setting off the wrong piano samples.


In positive contrast,
I find that Pianoteq integrates well with my own playing style.  Specifically, because the notes are calculated in real time, there are no abrupt changes in samples resulting from small changes in velocity increments.  In addition, Pianoteq is able to be modified in ways that were never conceivable with comparatively static piano libraries. 

Anyway, welcome to the forum, and have fun using your new Pianoteq software.  Stay in touch on this forum, as there are many knowledgeable people who will welcome all of your inquiries, and will answer them in thoughtful and considerate ways to help you.

Cheers,

Joe

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (12-05-2010 19:41)

Re: New User

Joe:

You've clearly summed up what I find wrong with samples.  I call it a lack of continuity, or missing connectedness.

Glenn

__________________________
Procrastination Week has been postponed.  Again.

Re: New User

I agree with Joe that many Giga-level sample libraries have this unwanted character: some notes stuck out in unintended places. I have then argued that raising amount of sampling and velocity layers doesn't guarantee better piano sound; in fact it can be quite opposite. With PTQ you'll have a very responsive and expressive instrument, that's for sure!

Still I must say that case isn't that black and white like "PTQ is the winner in all cases and that's all. period". It depends what are you after for. For example for some producer these "imperfect features" of sample libraries are just the most wanted thing. Someone might call this "soul" or whatever.

According to some critics PTQ is said to be "soulless" or "too perfect". I disagree. It's kind of "perfect" thing in sense Joe described: it has no velocity layers and it gives you exact response in all 127 velocity (too bad we don't have more!!!). It has these marvelous resonance features and singing tone, so for me it's very soulfull sound.

But what I still miss in PTQ sound is natural sound quality in lower part of piano. (I've been writing about it a lot in this forum). For me this can affect to my playing - I play mostly improvised music. With PTQ I can notice that I tend to use higher registers more (they sound VERY nice to my ears) but same time I'm avoiding a little bit the lower part. So this is limiting my expression, I'm afraid.

Anyway - in the imperfect world - PTQ is just a marvellous thing that you can learn a lot from. In fact I've been arguing its potential as a pedagogical tool; I've used it with my students and with success. Its GUI is just amazing thing to learn and experiment with many piano possibilities and record your performances.

Last edited by Ecaroh (12-05-2010 08:22)

Re: New User

jcfelice88keys wrote:

The above trouble occurred when I made a live recording of "Rhapsody in Blue" using the Boesendorfer piano in the demo recording that appears in EWQL Pianos' website.  I had to go back and edit, by hand, numerous velocities that had "tripped" the next highest velocity layer ... in a piano library that sported 18 separate velocity levels.

Does this mean that the demo that is currently there does in fact incorporate your post editing?

Greg. (an EWQLP owner ;^)

Re: New User

skip wrote:

Does this mean that the demo that is currently there does in fact incorporate your post editing?

Greg. (an EWQLP owner ;^)


Hello Greg,

In a word ... yes.  All of my six demos that currently reside in the EWQLP website were, in fact, performed "live" by Yours Truly.  I hasten to add that these live performances were recorded live into Digital Performer with zero quantization and with zero metronome usage, but velocities of a few of the noisier sounding samples were altered (by me -- almost always reduced in velocity rather than increased in velocity) to bring them inline; the purpose of this exercise was to produce as fine a performance as possible.  Correction:  at the climaxes of Rhapsody in Blue, I did increase some of the notes in some of the chords to make sure they were each heard as distinct notes.

Hope this does not disappoint you about my playing.  Nick Phoenix was searching for as perfect a "musical" performance as possible in these demos.

Cheers,

Joe

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (12-05-2010 19:45)

Re: New User

Thanks Joe, and I guess that kind of thing is quite normal for marketing purposes.  In any case, I was able to read other's comments about the product before purchasing and I had a fair idea what I was getting myself into. (a can of wriggly worms. No no no - just kidding

Greg.

Re: New User

Hi Perry,

Welcome! I've had Pianoteq for about six months, and I can tell you that as time goes by and you get into tweaking things more, your enjoyment and appreciation for this software will become even greater. 

What convinced me to buy Pianoteq was the fine sounding and useable demo version, with no time limit, that Modartt provides. I had decided never again to buy instrument software that I couldn't try out thoroughly first, or else return if it didn't meet my expectations.

Online audio demos emphasis the strong points of music software and sample libraries, but only hands-on playing gives the full picture. My main problem with most sample manufacturers is that they don't give you a demo version to try, and once you've bought a license they don't allow you to return the software or resell it.

Pianoteq is pretty unique in terms of what it does and how it sounds. And Modartt's generosity in giving us the opportunity to take Pianoteq for a 'test-drive' before buying is appreciated.

Michael

Re: New User

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome.  I've been writing & recording since the early seventies.  In the last three years I've gone from six, full sized racks of synths, samplers & outboard FX down to two racks with just PC, patch bays and mic pres.  I really don't miss all the gear (except maybe my VL-1m).  The software available just gets better all the time!
   -Perry-