Topic by Gilles

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Topic: Yamaha P80

This is what I find useful with the Soft Touch setting and Grand Piano Voice :

Velocity = [0, 12, 23, 103, 114, 127; 0, 0, 6, 121, 127, 127]

A bit of explanation is necessary. As Joshua Seth has shown us, Yamaha keyboard owners, the keyboard sends different velocity values according to the internal voice used, as well as sending two midi notes if we use two voices in combination, effectively changing the resulting volume. This was a surprise to me.

I calculate as following the number of velocity curves that would be needed to cover all cases, forgetting the Fixed Touch setting which always sends a fixed value (64 by default)

There are 3 touch settings, 24 voices (12, each with a variation) and they can be combined 2 at a time, so that gives us :

Using the usual factorial formula for non redundant combinations:
Permutation = nPr = n! / (n-r)!
Combination = nCr = nPr / r!
with n=24 and r=2

3*(24+276) = 900 possible curves ... if I'm not mistaken...

So I'll give only one

There are also other constraints. The P80 keyboard is rather hard so if you bang too much on it you hurt your fingers (mine at least) so the curve above represents the average range for my playing, optimizing the dynamic range.

On top of that, I added some padding a while ago to reduce key noises,

(see : http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic...6637#p6637 )

and this reduced a bit the physical course of the keys by adding some additional material at the bottom, so I have to bang really hard now to get 127.

But still I find the P80's output pretty regular (linear) in its action, so my curve is actually the linear curve limited roughly between 25 and 100.

I hope this helps...


EDIT: After playing for a while, I find the above curve reaches ff a bit too fast so I would revise it as such :

Velocity = [0, 12, 23, 101, 114, 127; 0, 0, 6, 112, 123, 127]

Last edited by Gilles (01-03-2010 14:57)

Reply by Gilles

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Re: Yamaha P80

With etalmor's java tool :

Input Range : 10 to 117 step 16
Map to [ -1 , 1 ]
f(x)=atan(x)
Output Range : 0 to 127

Giving :

velocity = [0, 10, 26, 42, 58, 74, 90, 106, 117, 127; 0,0, 14, 33, 55, 79, 101, 118, 127,127]

Note that I don't use this curve all the time...for some music and some fxp the standard Moderately Slow Curve fits my fingers better...but this is supposed to be a curve corresponding to the keyboard itself, not the player.

Last edited by Gilles (13-03-2010 00:07)

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Yamaha P80

Velocity = [0, 12, 23, 103, 114, 127; 0, 0, 6, 116, 124, 127]

try this curve with 'soft touch' and 'Electric Piano 1' instrument preset settings on your P80

also in pianoteq, choose either Default K1 Solo Recording or Default C3 Solo Recording and enable 'level compensation' and 'concert reverb'

let me know how you get on

Chris

Reply by Gilles

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Re: Yamaha P80

With 'E. Piano 1' I find your curve (similar to my last one) reaches ff too fast. The 'Grand Piano' preset is more gradual for my taste, or my fingers...

More and more, I think that the player's touch can't really be separated from the physical keyboard's response, the music played, or the pianoteq preset chosen. This is all intertwined.

Finally, I find myself changing velocity curves quite often according to need. I guess the curve I published is restricted to the exercise given, namely find the most regular curve when playing ppp to fff outside of any musical context.

Pianoteq's Volume and Dynamics settings also get in the equation.

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Yamaha P80

Gilles wrote:

With 'E. Piano 1' I find your curve (similar to my last one) reaches ff too fast. The 'Grand Piano' preset is more gradual for my taste, or my fingers...

More and more, I think that the player's touch can't really be separated from the physical keyboard's response, the music played, or the pianoteq preset chosen. This is all intertwined.

Finally, I find myself changing velocity curves quite often according to need. I guess the curve I published is restricted to the exercise given, namely find the most regular curve when playing ppp to fff outside of any musical context.

Pianoteq's Volume and Dynamics settings also get in the equation.

You're right Gilles. it does reach ff very quickly. However it works for my CP33 and playing style. It IS a matter of taste and styles.

Thank you for your feedback

Regards

Chris

Last edited by sigasa (25-03-2010 21:01)

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Yamaha P80

Velocity = [18, 98, 127; 0, 112, 127]

Dynamics set to '57'

Limiter set to 'Off'

(I have) Main Volume set to '-6' (adjust as to your personal preference)

Level Compensation set to 'On'

Reverb set to 'Chamber Audience' Default Preset