Topic by claudio

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Topic: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

Hello,

I’m in my fifth day with Pianoteq, and still astonished with its sound and capabilities, and exactly because of that, I am going to a new midi controller and need your help with the following:

In the place I live in Brazil, I have found two interesting options regarding a midi controller for Pianoteq: Yamaha P-140, with a good action keyboard, and CME UF8, which is not promptly available here, so I would have to order it without a “test drive”.

Could you tell me how does UF8 compare with Yamaha P-140 in terms of midi controlling and keyboard action? The critical issue here is the price: Yamaha is 100% more expensive than UF8...

Thanks,

Claudio

Reply by Rainer

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

Hello Claudio,

regarding keyboard action: you cant compare the Yamaha and CME. The Yamaha ist far better, the CME (I tried it) is floppy and not very stable, does not feel like an epiano keyboard. Better use the Yamaha and an additional MIDI controller like the one from Behringer.

Rainer

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Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

About three years ago, there was a post on NorthernSounds.com about a problem with an earlier Yamaha, the P-80, I think. It has a problem achieving the full range of midi velocities. Couldn't register very low or very high velocities.

I don't mean to worry you unnecessarily, but you may want to post questions on sites like KVR-Vst and Northernsounds to find what other people have discovered.

Reply by CriticalVoice

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

Hello Claudio,

I cant aggree with Rainer, that the yamaha is FAR better - E-Piano-feeling is the wrong thing anyway, you really want PIANO feeling and this, to my mind and experience, is far better with the CME UF8 (in conjunction with the GPP-3) which I have and I am very satisfied with it, nothing of this, what Rainer mentioned, it gives full velocitiy etc etc, and has nice pianoaction, high repetition, amazingly almost no clack and no or rattling or other weaknesses. Its great value for that price!

May be Rainer testet a wrecked piece in a shop where anybody hammered away on it without taking care...

I have it for 2 years now, and no complaints so far!


All the Best

Reply by claudio

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

Hi,

Thanks a lot for all your advice. 

Yamaha P-140 has really impressed me a lot in terms of keyboard action.

However it seems to be a good idea to make sure that it does not present the same problems P-80 did, regarding velocity full range.

As for CME UF8, what I have heard here and in other forums is that you hate it or love it.

And unfortunately UF8 is not available here for a test. Dealers have only UF7, which it is a quite different thing...

Claudio

Reply by dkpianist.de

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

I have a Yamaha P-80 since 2001 (used live a lot to the day, absolutely reliable). While a bit "stiff", I can say it is the most exact hammer-action keyboard (next to Kawai maybe) I have played so far. I cannot confirm the alleged problem with the dynamic range. Certainly it goes all the way to 127, and you also can play very soft on it. The response is really really good. A bit heavy maybe...

Not all Yamahas, however, are built like that. I have played Clavinovas that really felt floppy and way too soft (maybe they have been abused by generations of cruel e-piano-haters). I did not totally like the P120 either.

After all, you have to try yourself of course. I do not know the P140.

In general, I would suspect that the low price tag of CME alone is prohibitive for it to be top-notch gear. "Made in China" hasn't come to be a quality promise yet...

I have recently played a friend's CASIO Privia PX110. Affordable, very lightweight, despite built-in speakers, brittle plastic housing, but a surprisingly solid keyboard action. A bit on the heavy side, but it seemed quite good. The sounds are so-so of course, but we are talking of MIDI controllers here.

I will try playing PTQ with it and then post an update here. Not sure about the dynamic range.

dkpianist.de's Website

Reply by claudio

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

Hi dkpianist,

The Yamaha dealers in my city have P70 - almost the same price as UF8, and they recommend it as a good cost / benefit relationship. But I don't know to what extent it is similar or not to P80.

Do you happen to know if they have the same Graded Hammer system?

thanks,

claudio

Reply by dkpianist.de

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

Hello Claudio,

I cannot tell you anything about the P70. I played on another "P" model once, but I guess that was the P90. That one was a bit lighter, touch-wise.

The P70 isn't quite the same price class as the P80, and it looks quite downscaled in terms of sound variety. It has built-in speakers, so I guess something else might have been economised. Mabye the action, maybe the housing.

All I can say is the P80 is quite sturdy and, as said before, there is a variety of actions in different Yamaha Pianos. Until now, I did not find the same action in another model. Anyway, the P70 product description says "graded hammer" too.

Dominik

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Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

I've tried unsuccessfully to find where I first read about the P-80 having velocity problems. However, I looked again at the Harmony Central review site for for the P-80 at

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/revi...a/P80/10/1

(Notice that there are thirteen pages of reviews.)  Several posters say that working with midi on the P-80 requires many button pushes, and two say that they have had problems with erratic midi velocity levels, one mentioning that he can't send out mid velocities above 100. Three reviews said that Yamaha replaced their keybeds for no charge, so this may have been a problem with early builds of the keyboard. On the other hand, these may have been the only bad keyboards in the entire country. And most of the reviewers like the piano sounds and the action.

By all means test out the midi response, and listen to what other people say. If you have a notebook computer, you might take it with you to the shop--that way you could test out any keyboard with both a program that would tell you the midi response and with Pianoteq.

Aside from all other concerns, such as the action and on-board sounds, one of my considerations might be the number of controls, such as knobs and sliders, that you can assign to knobs and sliders in Pianoteq. Since Pianoteq invites experimentation, there's a real advantage to being able to do almost everything from the midi keyboard, without having to swivel back and forth between the piano and the computer.

Good luck, regardless of your choice.

Reply by dkpianist.de

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

Well... I happen to be one of those three people having problems with broken P-80 keys

It obviously was a problem in earlier models, and they seem to have worked on it since the replacement keybed (free, thanks Yamaha) has never made any trouble.

As I said earlier, I never had problems with the velocity range. In fact, this combination (P-80 and PTQ) is much more responsive and dynamic than many a real world acoustic piano!

As for additional controls -- I quit searching for the perfect, all-including masterkeyboard (I believe it simply does not exist). The P-80 has one footswitch jack, and that's it. My solution is an EDIROL PCR-M1, a really flat 2-octave USB keyboard with 8 knobs, several switches and two pedal inputs, all programmable. It is easy to carry in a backpack along with the MacBook, and it really works fine.

It also has MIDI in/out and can be used as a USB MIDI interface. It even has a pitch bender, though made of rubber, that smoothly transmits continuous PB messages. A very good companion to a spartan digital piano.

dkpianist.de's Website

Reply by doug

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

dkpianist.de wrote:

As for additional controls -- I quit searching for the perfect, all-including masterkeyboard (I believe it simply does not exist). The P-80 has one footswitch jack, and that's it. My solution is an EDIROL PCR-M1, a really flat 2-octave USB keyboard with 8 knobs, several switches and two pedal inputs, all programmable. It is easy to carry in a backpack along with the MacBook, and it really works fine.

It also has MIDI in/out and can be used as a USB MIDI interface. It even has a pitch bender, though made of rubber, that smoothly transmits continuous PB messages. A very good companion to a spartan digital piano.

I have a similar setup. I use an ancient Kurzweil MIDIBOARD as my weighted 88 keys. It's MIDIed into a Novation X-Station 49, which is my portable keys and control surface (61 keys would have been better, sigh). The X-Station takes USB to the computer and a CME GPP3 pedal unit is also connected by USB. It's a simple but very flexible setup. I only wish the x-station was longer and the MIDIBOARD lighter.

Reply by dkpianist.de

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

Of course, I'd love a bigger second keyboard too, but there are so many bulky items in my packlist already

Doug, I assume you gig with this setup. Ever had crashes? I still have a "life line" running in that I connect the P-80 to the mixer so I could turn it up in an emergency. Never had to, luckily

Dominik

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Reply by doug

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

I jam, mostly. As to crashes--once or twice. Luckily, the x-station has a pretty good built-in subtractive/fm synth that can sort-of cover in the event of a computer problem. No piano onboard, though.

Reply by markh

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

I use a CME UF8 with a GPP-3 and it is very good. The ONLY keyboard I have found to be better is that inside a Clavinova CLP280 which has wooden keys. The CME is better than MAudio Prokeys88. I Have not tried the Fatar/Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus but reviews I have read indicate that it might be similar to the CME, except in terms of conatruxtion: the CME is more solid and built around a box metal frame, and thus it is very heavy. You need a very solid stand for the CME, I am building my own from 3 x 3 timber. I comment as someone who has owned Steinway D's.

The P140 in the UK is TWICE the price of the CME, so for me there is no contest, unless you want the Yamaha sounds and speakers.

Reply by claudio

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Re: CME UF8 or Yamaha P140

Hi markh,

Nice to know that you consider CME UF8 very good and well constructed. And in terms of keyboard responsiveness and "piano feeling", your experience certainly speaks loud.

In Brazil the price ratio is the same: P140 is also TWICE the price of CME.

I think I will go with UF8!

Thanks,

claudio